Very interesting back and forth between Swanson and Murf this week on the "revised" podcast, and boy, I was proud of Swanson bringing the heat to Murf when they started talking about which Dynasty was better, USC under Carroll, or Bama under Saban. Murf seemed pretty sure of himself, but Swanson came back at him hard with those facts about the BCS rankings and mythical Championships. I think on this one, Murf might be too close to Bama to see the clearest picture here. So I thought I would examine, which dynasty was/is better?
So in looking at this, we have to take into account, Im not counting the years Saban and Pete were building the teams, so no crappy years are included from the start. But that said, right off the bat, we must all realize that Saban's dynasty is already 1 year longer than Pete's, so even in comparing these, it's really an 8 year run for Bama from 2008-2015, against a 7 year run for Pete from 2002-2008. I'm not counting Pete's last year here because the Dynasty was really over already and Pete was ready to move on. So that 9-4 season is not included, simply because in my mind, that should not be included in the Dynasty, it was already over.
So again, its Alabama 2008-2015 vs. USC 2002-2008:
USC Record- 81-9 (90.0% winning %)
Bama Record- 98-12 (89.0% winning %)
Slight edge to USC on winning %, but Bama has gone one year longer on the Dynasty, and doesnt appear to be stopping anytime soon.
USC National Championships- 2 (No playoff)
Bama National Championships- 4 (1 playoff)
Murf was weighing this heavily, but Swanson was quite correct to point out that USC would have had more Championships if there had been a playoff, or even if the BCS rankings werent so bias against West Coast teams. In every season from 2003-2008 that USC didnt make the BCS Championship game, they ended the season with the same record as the BCS Champion. The only way USC made it to the BCS Championship game was having an undefeated season, they never made it with one loss. Alabama on the other hand made the BCS Championship game twice with a loss, and won, including a year where they didnt even win their Conference, or Division!
USC Top 4 finishes- 7 of 7
Bama Top 4 finishes- 5 of 8 (Bama finished #6 in 2008, #10 in 2010, and #7 in 2013)
This speaks to consistent dominance to me. Bama has had a couple of seasons where they reloaded for a year, USC never had that in their Dynasty. They were Top 4 every year at the end of the season.
USC BCS Bowl Record- 6-1
Bama BCS Bowl Record- 4-3 (didnt make a BCS Bowl in 2010)
USC always played their best in the biggest games. They dominated BCS Bowl games, and really should be 7-0 here if not for a Herculean effort by Vince Young, and a depleted Defense in 2005. And still that game came down to the last minute. Bama has gotten their asses handed to them 3 times in BCS Bowl games.
USC Longest Winning Streak- 34 games
Bama Longest Winning Streak- 19 games
In fairness to Bama here, their Conference schedule was tougher than USC's Conference schedule during Pete's Dynasty, so it was probably harder to go undefeated. But in fairness to USC, Pete Carroll scheduled a lot more OOC games against Power 5 Opponents. And many of these were TRUE road games. I could be wrong, but I think Bama has only traveled to one true road game in this run, at Penn St. USC went to Auburn, Arkansas, Kansas St, BYU, Nebraska, Ohio St, Notre Dame, VaTech, and probably a few more I am forgetting.
USC Draft picks- 2002- 2009 53, 14 First Rounders
Bama Draft picks- 2008-2015 48, 17 First Rounders
Close, but USC produced more NFL Draft picks than Bama in their Dynasty's. To make it even for years, I expanded USC to the 2009 Draft to include the 2008 team, so this is an 8 year comparison for both teams. Bama has 3 more 1st rounders, but overall, USC has 5 more Draft picks.
USC Heisman Winners- 3
Bama Heisman Winners- 2
Close, but arguments can also be made that both of Bama's Hesimans should have gone to other players. Especially last year, with McCafferey having that season he had. But in fairness, Bush's was taken away, and could have easily gone to Vince Young. But Leinart and Palmer were clear cut winners.
Pete Carroll vs. Nick Saban
Probably one of the few coaches in the game right now that if they faced Nick Saban on a college field, would be considered the better coach. I would take Carroll and his halftime adjustments and big game performances over any college coach alive today. Carroll also has gone back and succeeded where Nick Saban could not in the NFL. But in fairness, Saban could still do that. But in the end, Pete Carroll gets the edge here.
So I think when you compare apples to apples, USC's 7 year Dynasty was in fact better than Bama's current 8 year Dynasty in terms of quality, consistency, and dominance. That said, no doubt Bama's is going to last a lot longer, it already has, so it will go down as the best in terms of years. But had Carroll not left, and sanctions not come, who knows where USC would be now. But those are ifs and buts, can't do that in this discussion.
So in looking at this, we have to take into account, Im not counting the years Saban and Pete were building the teams, so no crappy years are included from the start. But that said, right off the bat, we must all realize that Saban's dynasty is already 1 year longer than Pete's, so even in comparing these, it's really an 8 year run for Bama from 2008-2015, against a 7 year run for Pete from 2002-2008. I'm not counting Pete's last year here because the Dynasty was really over already and Pete was ready to move on. So that 9-4 season is not included, simply because in my mind, that should not be included in the Dynasty, it was already over.
So again, its Alabama 2008-2015 vs. USC 2002-2008:
USC Record- 81-9 (90.0% winning %)
Bama Record- 98-12 (89.0% winning %)
Slight edge to USC on winning %, but Bama has gone one year longer on the Dynasty, and doesnt appear to be stopping anytime soon.
USC National Championships- 2 (No playoff)
Bama National Championships- 4 (1 playoff)
Murf was weighing this heavily, but Swanson was quite correct to point out that USC would have had more Championships if there had been a playoff, or even if the BCS rankings werent so bias against West Coast teams. In every season from 2003-2008 that USC didnt make the BCS Championship game, they ended the season with the same record as the BCS Champion. The only way USC made it to the BCS Championship game was having an undefeated season, they never made it with one loss. Alabama on the other hand made the BCS Championship game twice with a loss, and won, including a year where they didnt even win their Conference, or Division!
USC Top 4 finishes- 7 of 7
Bama Top 4 finishes- 5 of 8 (Bama finished #6 in 2008, #10 in 2010, and #7 in 2013)
This speaks to consistent dominance to me. Bama has had a couple of seasons where they reloaded for a year, USC never had that in their Dynasty. They were Top 4 every year at the end of the season.
USC BCS Bowl Record- 6-1
Bama BCS Bowl Record- 4-3 (didnt make a BCS Bowl in 2010)
USC always played their best in the biggest games. They dominated BCS Bowl games, and really should be 7-0 here if not for a Herculean effort by Vince Young, and a depleted Defense in 2005. And still that game came down to the last minute. Bama has gotten their asses handed to them 3 times in BCS Bowl games.
USC Longest Winning Streak- 34 games
Bama Longest Winning Streak- 19 games
In fairness to Bama here, their Conference schedule was tougher than USC's Conference schedule during Pete's Dynasty, so it was probably harder to go undefeated. But in fairness to USC, Pete Carroll scheduled a lot more OOC games against Power 5 Opponents. And many of these were TRUE road games. I could be wrong, but I think Bama has only traveled to one true road game in this run, at Penn St. USC went to Auburn, Arkansas, Kansas St, BYU, Nebraska, Ohio St, Notre Dame, VaTech, and probably a few more I am forgetting.
USC Draft picks- 2002- 2009 53, 14 First Rounders
Bama Draft picks- 2008-2015 48, 17 First Rounders
Close, but USC produced more NFL Draft picks than Bama in their Dynasty's. To make it even for years, I expanded USC to the 2009 Draft to include the 2008 team, so this is an 8 year comparison for both teams. Bama has 3 more 1st rounders, but overall, USC has 5 more Draft picks.
USC Heisman Winners- 3
Bama Heisman Winners- 2
Close, but arguments can also be made that both of Bama's Hesimans should have gone to other players. Especially last year, with McCafferey having that season he had. But in fairness, Bush's was taken away, and could have easily gone to Vince Young. But Leinart and Palmer were clear cut winners.
Pete Carroll vs. Nick Saban
Probably one of the few coaches in the game right now that if they faced Nick Saban on a college field, would be considered the better coach. I would take Carroll and his halftime adjustments and big game performances over any college coach alive today. Carroll also has gone back and succeeded where Nick Saban could not in the NFL. But in fairness, Saban could still do that. But in the end, Pete Carroll gets the edge here.
So I think when you compare apples to apples, USC's 7 year Dynasty was in fact better than Bama's current 8 year Dynasty in terms of quality, consistency, and dominance. That said, no doubt Bama's is going to last a lot longer, it already has, so it will go down as the best in terms of years. But had Carroll not left, and sanctions not come, who knows where USC would be now. But those are ifs and buts, can't do that in this discussion.
